I really enjoyed how you unpacked the difference between God as a conceptual necessity and God as a being worthy of worship. Your point about early Christians, Israelites, and other cultures really clarified for me why calling non-Classical Theists atheists is misleading. I also liked how you connected Classical Theism to both philosophy and moral responsibility—it helped me see the stakes more clearly without feeling like the argument was just abstract theorizing.
One of the fears I have with classical theists calling other models of theism atheism, is that it seems to shift the emphasis on Christians to have right the intellectual relationships rather than a proper relationship. Of course, we want Christians to have right relationship with God and that will be connected with right beliefs about God. Regardless, I would hate to overwhelm the average Christian with understanding Christian metaphysics when they already have a strong devotion to God.
Thank you for this nuanced treatment of the theist/atheist discussion. So much of the confusion today seems to come from the way language has flattened the question.
For most of human history—especially in the Jewish tradition—the issue was never simply belief versus unbelief, but how one speaks about the Ultimate who exceeds human categories. A writer put it in Too Deep for Words:
“God Himself is ‘another language’ for us, for He is incomprehensible in His fullness to our finite human intellect.”
Hunh. Good post. I need to file this one away, I suspect I might need it.
Because here I was thinking it was the philosophers' idea of god that's unworthy of the name. That bit in the post where you list all the theists who don't buy into the philosophers' god seems like it includes...everyone but the philosophers? It's all intellectual overthinking that's been tacked onto Christianity, and it's mostly just altered and obfuscated what's actually being worshipped here.
Are the leaders of the Catholic Church, atheist? They are supervising the mass leaving of the Church and doing almost nothing about it. One would think if they believed in God and could justify it, they would be doing something about this mass defection.
But all I see is how to be a better Catholic preached in the Church, not why one should be a Catholic in the first place. Are they preaching to the choir while the pews are emptying. I can guarantee that if Aquinas were alive today he would not be writing his Summa but doing something about it.
Question: what is proper worship of God? Why? God is not affected by any worship because He is perfect and cannot change. So worship has no affect on Him. So why do it?
Because worship or failure to worship has an effect on us, Jerry. What we worship and how we worship also matters. These realities are made abundantly clear in both Old and New Testament. When idols are worshiped, things go poorly for those who worship them. When the Living God is worshipped, things may still go poorly but those who worship remain in right relationship with what/whom they worship and are saved by means of worship. In short, we become what we worship, and man was made to worship. May we all choose what/who we worship wisely. In the words of Bishop Fulton Sheen: “we all worship something, and for most of us, that something is ourselves” (paraphrasing).
Thanks for replying. I have an answer to the question. Was looking to see what other reasons people give since it was a major part of OP.
Never really thought of it till I started looking into justifying beliefs in God. One who studied the question would ask if a creator of the universe and life was worthy of worship. He concluded the answer was no. I disagree strongly with his assessment but it got me thinking.
Fascinating post, and easy to read. Well done Alex!
I really enjoyed how you unpacked the difference between God as a conceptual necessity and God as a being worthy of worship. Your point about early Christians, Israelites, and other cultures really clarified for me why calling non-Classical Theists atheists is misleading. I also liked how you connected Classical Theism to both philosophy and moral responsibility—it helped me see the stakes more clearly without feeling like the argument was just abstract theorizing.
One of the fears I have with classical theists calling other models of theism atheism, is that it seems to shift the emphasis on Christians to have right the intellectual relationships rather than a proper relationship. Of course, we want Christians to have right relationship with God and that will be connected with right beliefs about God. Regardless, I would hate to overwhelm the average Christian with understanding Christian metaphysics when they already have a strong devotion to God.
Thank you for this nuanced treatment of the theist/atheist discussion. So much of the confusion today seems to come from the way language has flattened the question.
For most of human history—especially in the Jewish tradition—the issue was never simply belief versus unbelief, but how one speaks about the Ultimate who exceeds human categories. A writer put it in Too Deep for Words:
“God Himself is ‘another language’ for us, for He is incomprehensible in His fullness to our finite human intellect.”
Language matters.
He specifically points out exactly what he meant. That they don’t believe in an uncreated creator.
Hunh. Good post. I need to file this one away, I suspect I might need it.
Because here I was thinking it was the philosophers' idea of god that's unworthy of the name. That bit in the post where you list all the theists who don't buy into the philosophers' god seems like it includes...everyone but the philosophers? It's all intellectual overthinking that's been tacked onto Christianity, and it's mostly just altered and obfuscated what's actually being worshipped here.
https://jackditch.substack.com/p/god-almighty-as-far-as-it-goes
Are the leaders of the Catholic Church, atheist? They are supervising the mass leaving of the Church and doing almost nothing about it. One would think if they believed in God and could justify it, they would be doing something about this mass defection.
But all I see is how to be a better Catholic preached in the Church, not why one should be a Catholic in the first place. Are they preaching to the choir while the pews are emptying. I can guarantee that if Aquinas were alive today he would not be writing his Summa but doing something about it.
Question: what is proper worship of God? Why? God is not affected by any worship because He is perfect and cannot change. So worship has no affect on Him. So why do it?
Because worship or failure to worship has an effect on us, Jerry. What we worship and how we worship also matters. These realities are made abundantly clear in both Old and New Testament. When idols are worshiped, things go poorly for those who worship them. When the Living God is worshipped, things may still go poorly but those who worship remain in right relationship with what/whom they worship and are saved by means of worship. In short, we become what we worship, and man was made to worship. May we all choose what/who we worship wisely. In the words of Bishop Fulton Sheen: “we all worship something, and for most of us, that something is ourselves” (paraphrasing).
Thanks for replying. I have an answer to the question. Was looking to see what other reasons people give since it was a major part of OP.
Never really thought of it till I started looking into justifying beliefs in God. One who studied the question would ask if a creator of the universe and life was worthy of worship. He concluded the answer was no. I disagree strongly with his assessment but it got me thinking.